| Author | Message | ||
     Fr. Boniface Copelin Member Username: Fatherb Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2009 |
Hello all! I have a question for the group. Why is it that my short pipes (squat bulldogs and apples) smoke fine but my tall pipes (billard, stretch bent bulldog) always seem to smoke hot? Am I doing something wrong? How would you advise? | ||
| Todd Bannard Member Username: Sasquatch Post Number: 661 Registered: 05-2006 |
Is it possible that you pack the bottom of tall pipes a bit too tight? My conjecture would be that if you are correctly packing a shorter pipe, possibly you pack a tall pipe in the same manner, then proceed to jam more tobacco on top of the already solid pack? This would lead to an overly tight pack, and a hot smoke. There is no physical reason for a taller pipe to smoke hotter. Some of my coolest pipes are very tall indeed. | ||
| Harvey Click Member Username: Fafhrd Post Number: 1456 Registered: 03-2006 |
Probably your taller pipes have thinner walls. Thinner walls heat up much more quickly. | ||
| W. A. Lanman Member Username: Blenheimbard Post Number: 116 Registered: 01-2009 |
Also, all things being equal the taller pipe burns longer, ie hotter. | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4305 Registered: 02-2002 |
Tall pipes can have thin walls, medium-sized walls, thick walls, or just plain average-sized walls--whatever that may be. I have had tall pipes and short pipes and have not found tall pipes to smoke hotter. | ||
| W. A. Lanman Member Username: Blenheimbard Post Number: 117 Registered: 01-2009 |
Could have stated that better, what I meant to say was the taller the pipe the longer it has to get hot with continuous smoking, all other things being equal. | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4306 Registered: 02-2002 |
How hot the pipe gets depends more on your puffing rate than height, all else being equal. | ||
| Duke January Member Username: Duke Post Number: 47 Registered: 05-2008 |
Hey Melvin, I've got some pipes with a thin walls and of varying height and they can get hot to touch, sometimes. Follow me here, please. Wood is used on cooking pan handles because it doesn't transfer heat as does metal. Thinner walled pipes may appear hotter, but I bet the internal temprature is similar to thick walled. My narrow walled pipes, although warmer to the touch, smoke cool. I think chamber temp is what counts. Respectfully | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4307 Registered: 02-2002 |
Duke, In addition to what I said above-- Thick-walled pipes should smoke cooler than thin-walled pipes, all else being equal. Briar that is very dense should smoke cooler than briar that is light and lacking the extra heft (denseness). Briar from the female plant is more dense than from the male plant, just thought you'd like to know. Now don't ask me how to tell whether the pipe has briar from male or female plant.  You should be able to puff at a faster rate with a thick-walled pipe versus a thin-walled pipe regarding heat, generally speaking. Of course, the discussion here is about tall pipes...and not thickness of pipe. However, discussions do tend to expand upon other considerations... | ||
| Tom Mueller Member Username: Tommueller Post Number: 171 Registered: 04-2008 |
Melvin wrote "How hot the pipe gets depends more on your puffing rate than height, all else being equal." Does this mean that a taller pipe that holds more tobacco does not burn longer than a shorter pipe that holds less tobacco? If it does burn longer, would it generate more heat, all else being equal? | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4308 Registered: 02-2002 |
Tom, I am referring to puffing rate as in how often one puffs, and that has nothing to do with height. If you puff at a reasonable rate that does not overheat your pipe, the height should not matter. | ||
| Gregory P Lloyd Member Username: El_cartero Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2009 |
"Thinner walled pipes may appear hotter, but I bet the internal temprature is similar to thick walled. My narrow walled pipes, although warmer to the touch, smoke cool. I think chamber temp is what counts. Respectfully" This is my thought too. Although if a pipe is too hot to handle, it's too hot to smoke. Also, the thinner walled pipe may easily get so hot that even if you hold it so as not to burn your hand, you may burn the briar. | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4309 Registered: 02-2002 |
Gregory, If thin-walled pipes get hotter to the touch, where do you think that heat is coming from? I kind of think it's coming from inside the bowl, don't you? | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4310 Registered: 02-2002 |
Let us look at this situation in a different equation: You are more apt to do damage to a thin-walled pipe versus a thick-walled pipe when puffing too fast. Now, no one to my knowledge has stuck a thermometer inside the bowl to determine temperature, but going by my own experience, I can say that thick-walled pipes generally smoke cooler than thin-walled pipes--all else being equal. How do I judge that temperature difference I mentioned above? I am making that judgment by how hot the pipe smokes--I generally get a cooler smoke from a thick-walled pipe versus a thin-walled pipe, even a medium-sized wall thickness is better than thin walls in my estimation. I am not starting a debate here about thick versus thin, etc. Whether you agree with me or not is entirely up to you. If your experience differs from mine, great! | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4311 Registered: 02-2002 |
"I am making that judgment by how the hot the pipe smokes" For those who only see downloaded messages, that was corrected to "I am making that judgment by how hot the pipe smokes" Just thought you should know... | ||
| Gregory P Lloyd Member Username: El_cartero Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2009 |
"Gregory, If thin-walled pipes get hotter to the touch, where do you think that heat is coming from? I kind of think it's coming from inside the bowl, don't you?" Good point Melvin. I assumed that a thicker walled bowl would be cooler to the touch by it's ability to dissipate heat to the rest of the bowl better than a thinner walled one with less wood. I guess it only stands to reason then that the chamber temperature in a thicker walled bowl would be cooler as well. Gosh I'm learning a lot here! | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4313 Registered: 02-2002 |
Gregory, The denseness of briar is a factor in how hot the pipe gets with regard to puffing rate. If you take two pipes with same wall thickness and all else being equal except that one pipe was made from female plant and the other from male plant, the pipe made from female plant will provide better protection against burn-out, especially for those that smoke hot. | ||
| Harvey Click Member Username: Fafhrd Post Number: 1460 Registered: 03-2006 |
I much prefer thick-walled pipes but suspect the inside of the chamber actually stays hotter in a thick walled because the wall acts as an insulator to keep the heat from dissipating. Think of a thermos bottle, which keeps the coffee inside hot, vs. a thin-walled bottle which feels hot to the touch but allows the coffee to cool quickly. | ||
| Gene Szymanski Member Username: Lt_taz Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2005 |
Mr. G. P, LLoyd May I ask on what you base the theory that the bowl (chamber) temperature of a thick walled pipe would be lower then that of a thin walled pipe. Possibly, I beleive the chamber temperatures would be the same the only difference being that of the rate of conduction and disapation of the heat i.e. the oven of your kitchen range set at 350 degrees F. one range having oven walls with 1" of insulation the other having 3" of insulation. Which range would have a hotter to the touch exterior oven wall? | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4314 Registered: 02-2002 |
--quote Harvey Click Harvey, take a look at my post above about the male and female plant with regard to denseness. If your theory was correct, how do you explain pipes made from the female plant, briar is more dense, smoke cooler and offer better protection against burn-out? Fortunately, pipes and thermos are completely different animals. | ||
| Harvey Click Member Username: Fafhrd Post Number: 1461 Registered: 03-2006 |
--"Harvey, take a look at my post above about the male and female plant with regard to denseness. If your theory was correct, how do you explain pipes made from the female plant, briar is more dense, smoke cooler and offer better protection against burn-out?" Well, maybe female briar makes a better thermos bottle, meaning it holds more heat inside (so you can't feel it on your hand) and yet offers better protection against burnout because the wood is more resistant to heat. Just a theory, kind of like my theory for time travel, which I will prove just as soon as I can get this confounded time machine to work. --"Fortunately, pipes and thermos are completely different animals. :-) " You mean you've never drilled a hole in the side of a thermos, attached a stem, and loaded it up with Penance? Give it a try sometime--it's a nice, cool smoke, even if it sometimes carries a ghost of coffee or iced tea. | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4316 Registered: 02-2002 |
Harvey, How is it possible for wood to hold more heat and be more resistant to burn-out? If the wood is holding more heat in the bowl, then it would seem, thinking logically here, to be hotter in the chamber and more apt to cause a burn-out as well. "Penance"??? Nope, never tried it. | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4317 Registered: 02-2002 |
Harvey, I think this should put this whole issue in the proper perspective-- You obviously think thick-walled pipes retain more heat than thin-walled pipes. Have you found thick-walled pipes to smoke hotter than thin-walled pipes? Can you give us an example/theory of how a thick-walled pipe would be more likely to cause heat cracks than a thin-walled pipe? Heat cracks can lead to a burn-out. We should be talking about all factors outside the wall thickness as being equal, or nearly equal. I don't know how one can tell whether the pipe is made from male or female plant, so I'll throw that out. I also don't know of anyone who stuck a thermometer in the bowl to determine temperature, so I'll throw that out as well. ;-) | ||
| Harvey Click Member Username: Fafhrd Post Number: 1464 Registered: 03-2006 |
Melvin, you are causing my poor brain to overheat, despite the thickness of my skull. I am going to have to smoke a magnum-size bowl of 1792 and ponder these questions. | ||
| Gregory P Lloyd Member Username: El_cartero Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2009 |
"Mr. G. P, LLoyd May I ask on what you base the theory that the bowl (chamber) temperature of a thick walled pipe would be lower then that of a thin walled pipe. Possibly, I beleive the chamber temperatures would be the same the only difference being that of the rate of conduction and disapation of the heat i.e. the oven of your kitchen range set at 350 degrees F. one range having oven walls with 1" of insulation the other having 3" of insulation. Which range would have a hotter to the touch exterior oven wall?" Gene, My theory was based on my reasoning that a thick walled bowl, is at least initially, capable of absorbing a lot more chamber heat through conduction, than a thin walled one... not necessarily at a faster rate. After a certain point though, I imagine that once a bowl reaches a certain temperature even a thick walled bowl will no longer do this. The thicker the bowl, the more heat it will absorb, thus keeping the chamber temp lower. I would also theororise that if you smoke slowly enough you might be able to prevent the bowl walls from reaching this critical temperature and keep the chamber temperature lower throughout. Regarding the oven analogy; if the oven was on long enough, then the outside surface temperature of a 3 inch walled oven and a 1 inch walled oven would be the same. But if the oven was only turned on for 20-30 minutes, I assume the 3 inch walled oven would be cooler to the touch, providing the oven walls were made of a conductive material. I'm not sure the oven analogy works though due to the fact that a thermatically controlled oven will work to keep the inside temperature constant amd compensate for any heat lost through conduction. This is just a theory and I toss it out for discussion, I might be all wet ;) Regards, Greg | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4320 Registered: 02-2002 |
Greg, Theories are not a topic for lengthy discussion. In reality, any theory regarding inner bowl temperature is irrelevant. Why would it matter what the temperature is? Simply put, ask yourself whether you prefer thick, medium, or thin-walled pipes and that should overcome any theory... We prefer facts and opinions based on experience. From the Pipe Discussions page: 2. When posting, please give either your first-hand experience or cite the source of information. Third-hand anecdotes are generally not acceptable. | ||
| Mark Combs Member Username: Jazzmoose Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2009 |
I honestly don't see how thickness of the pipe (or anything else) would affect the inner bowl temperature. It seems to me that the temperature inside the bowl would be determined more by the burning temperature of a particular tobacco, and of course, the smoking method used by the smoker. Of course, I've been known to miss the obvious now and then... | ||
| Tor-Ulf Member Username: Torulf Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2008 |
A thicker bowl has more wood in it, to dissipate the heat from the chamber. The bowl itself is surrounded by air, which is a better insulator than wood. Therefore a thin-walled pipe will more quickly get hot on the outside, given a certain chamber temperature, since the amount of wood is less, and a thick-walled pipe may burn cooler (all else being equal). | ||
| Mark Combs Member Username: Jazzmoose Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2009 |
Sure, I understand how the OUTSIDE of the bowl would be affected by wall thickness; I thought it was alledged that the INSIDE of the bowl was affected. I guess the problem was my reading comprehension, and, as I said, my missing the obvious! | ||
| Melvin S. Schwartz Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 4331 Registered: 02-2002 |
The original question in this thread seems to be completely forgotten, or perhaps all that needed to be said has been said about tall and short pipes. Considering the OP has not even replied here, as well as the thread going off topic, I am therefore closing the discussion. |